Interview by Emily Hessney Lynch.

Published February 7, 2019.

Where are you originally from? What brought you to Rochester at this time in your life?

I grew up outside of Albany in a small town called Nassau. I moved to Rochester in 2003 for a tattooing apprenticeship. My best friend had moved to Rochester four years prior to attend RIT for animation. I visited him a few times, and became friends with some folks who owned a tattoo shop called Lucky Lotus. I always went to the Legal Wall when I was in town. Albany never had anything like that. They asked me to paint a mural at the shop, and later they asked me to become an apprentice.

Rochester quickly became home for me in many different ways. I met Sarah Rutherford, Monci, Erich Lehman, and Leah Rizzo, and we formed an art collective called the Sweet Meat Company. Rochester had all the things I needed from a city—mainly, other artists to be around.

I did two shows with the Sweet Meat Company, and we all did one mural together. We always compared ourselves to the Wu Tang Clan—we do a lot of solo projects, but would occasionally all collaborate. We threw ourselves into it. The Yards, 1975 Gallery, WALLTHERAPY, and Roc Paint Division all grew up out of this group. Regardless of how busy our lives are, WALLTHERAPY each year always feels like a big family reunion.

What are some hidden gems you've discovered around Rochester? 

By far my favorite is the water towers at Cobbs Hill. I transitioned from stencil art with spray paint to larger art on walls, partially through practicing there so much. It’s so quiet, and you’re surrounded by nature. It’s a magical place. I like to go there to spend time with friends or with myself. I also loved the subway, but it’s been awhile since I’ve been down there since they started construction. It was so special. Wild Wings in Mendon Ponds is another big one for me.

What are some of your favorite local nonprofits to support?

Wild Wings. I’ve volunteered there for over five years now; it’s my personal cause. They’re a nonprofit sanctuary for permanently injured, non-releasable birds of prey. Someone approached me at a live painting event and asked me to paint murals for them, so that’s how I first got involved. I’ve handled every species they have there (over 30!). I’ve learned so much about birds’ anatomies and personalities, and it’s really helped me get better at painting them.

If you had $100 and two hours to kill in Rochester, how would you spend the money/time? 

I’d go eat a bunch of food. My favorite restaurant in Rochester is Cure; my wife and I had our first date there and that’s where I proposed too. Old Pueblo Grill has quickly become a favorite as well.

What's the best place to get a garbage plate?

Marshall Street has my favorite plate in the city—they cover it in jalapeño queso and it’s so good. It adds something extra. Their waffle fries are awesome too.

What's your favorite neighborhood in the city? 

Upper Monroe. I’ve lived in that area for nine years, first renting, and now we own. I knew it was where I wanted to be. I love that nature is so easily accessible. I can walk over to Pinnacle Hill quickly, and you can see forever from the top, all trees and no buildings. You feel separate from the city, but it’s right there. I can also walk to Cobbs Hill and the water towers from my neighborhood.

What is your personal coping mechanism for cold/gray weather? 

I try to get away at least once during the winter. It makes you appreciate things more when you come back.

What is your favorite Rochester memory? 

The second Sweet Meat show we had, held at the Public Market space that’s now The Yards. The timing coincided with the precursor to WALL\THERAPY, where artists from South Africa came to town to paint murals. We had a huge turnout, and it was the day I met most of the people who are still my closest friends now. We all stuck together.

What makes Rochester unique? 

How tough the city is. There are different sides that people can see (or don’t see). You can cross a street and get a vibe of a neighborhood and it changes so quickly. There are parts of the city that people would never want to go to—except for the art! No matter how bad a neighborhood is, when you’re there to paint a wall, everyone likes you. You’re automatically accepted. You also get to have a different level of interaction with people. You’re a captive audience for their questions. I meet people I would never otherwise meet. You emerge with interesting stories about people. I talk to more homeless people than most folks do. I have to be my best as a person every time I’m out painting. You have to respect people and their place.

What do you think could be improved? 

The education system. I’ve worked with Roc Paint Division and that’s made me more aware of what it’s like to be a kid in our school system. There are families in my neighborhood who have left as soon as their kids are school-age. Some are afraid to go to school, or they drop out. We try to make a positive impact by improving the environment, painting murals in rec centers.

How did you get your start as a mural artist?

My first mural ever was in Albany on the side of a large movie theatre. I’d been doing illegal street art for about five years, and the movie theatre owners got connected to me through friends. The wall was probably about 30 feet tall and 100 feet wide. I worked on it with two other artists for about three months. We all went broke, but I knew it was what I wanted to do. Three years later, I started painting with WALLTHERAPY. Three years after that, I quit my full-time job at an art store to pursue art full-time. It’s been six years since then!

Where in Rochester do you go to get inspired?

The birds are my main source of inspiration. I get to use them as references. The Director of Wild Wings is a phenomenal photographer, so they send me photos when I can’t be there. I work with the birds on Mondays, and that always centers me for the week.

I also get inspiration from artists I personally know. Sarah Rutherford and I have a friendly sense of competition. We push each other to keep doing amazing work and to constantly up our game.

Have you always been drawn to birds?

Animals as a whole were always a big part of my life. I grew up on a working farm; both of my parents had PhDs in animal behavior, so I spent a lot of time with primates when I was young. I got to go to Kenya for two weeks at age six as well. I volunteered at a small zoo back home, and they were lax about letting people in enclosures with animals, so I often got to see animals up close. I had left my family’s farm at 16, and it had been over five years since I’d had a pet of any kind when I started volunteering at Wild Wings. Once I got there, a light bulb went off.

What's on deck for you in 2019?

I have a solo show in Chicago in June. I’m in negotiations for some other big projects, and a somewhat local one too. My summer is very fly by night. There are a few consistent trips I take almost every year—Battle Creek Michigan for their Color the Creek festival; Meeting of Styles in Houston. I’ll go back to Dollywood in October because I’m a professional pumpkin cover for two weeks a year with Maniac Pumpkin Carvers. I’ve been doing that as a form of live entertainment at Dollywood for five years now. The owners and employees of Maniac are all mural artists, because we understand that the work is temporal. You know you can’t carve for 16 hours, because the whole thing will rot in 3-5 days.

Last summer, I traveled to 10 cities for various projects. I try to remind myself almost every day how lucky I am to do what I do. I see a lot of our country and have special interactions along the way. I get to meet most of my favorite artists at festivals or graffiti jams. We talk shop, like professional ethics and standards. It’s so enlightening to have those conversations.

What advice would you give to up and coming artists in Rochester?

Don’t give up. The most difficult part is making art you don’t like, finishing it, and moving past it. It takes many years of making bad art to make good art. If you can’t deal with it, you’ll never get past it to make good art. It’s like juggling: you drop balls, feel bad, and give up. But if you kept practicing, you’d get better. You’re getting in the way of getting good at something by stopping. My artistic skills are more than a gift or a talent—I applied myself for my entire life to get to this point.